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Paul Antico's avatar

I appreciate this, Neşe—both the clarity of your analysis and the broader historical framing. It’s a valuable dissection of the ethical blind spots that surfaced around the MAPS MDMA trials and the bioethics of “focused bodywork.”

Your tracing of Grof’s influence is especially helpful. I’ve seen similar dynamics echoed in other modalities like PSIP (Psychedelic Somatic Interactional Psychotherapy), which doesn’t involve physical touch but can amplify intensity through tone, pacing, or therapeutic framing. In both cases, there’s often an unspoken assumption that more intensity equals more healing.

In my experience—as you note—the opposite is often true. Deliberately pushing someone to a breaking point, even in the name of healing, can re-traumatize rather than restore. The way I often phrase it is: “How you go about healing is the healing.”

zack's avatar

It is really unbelievable the way that you have re-interpreted Veronika Gold's description of "focused bodywork" in this singular therapy session and it is unfortunate that anyone is taking it seriously. I am under the impression that you have absolutely no clue what it actually looks like and feels like and you are finding problems and trauma from a description of an event where there is none. (My un-generous interpretation is that this kind of talk can induce a new trauma in someone where there doesn't have to be one, not unlike what happened to kids during the Satanic panic...)

I have experience with one Grofian group breathwork session (where I found myself far more suggestible than any experience I've had with ketamine) and I found that my experience with this specific kind of bodywork--while I was working through the psychodrama of some personal experience--to be quite healing given that I had no intent to resort to it when I started. The facilitators were also extremely clear about what it would entail, and as part of the breathwork session, you have one 'sitter' who watches intently and soberly; you can only watch one person quietly breathing for so long, so you have plenty of time to watch the rest of the group as well. No facilitated bodywork appeared to be even close to anything untoward.

The detail that you are sorely missing is that the client pushes *outward* with their body, most likely with their arms or hands. The facilitator sees this and provides resistance *against* it. The facilitator does not accept any blows and so would move away in that case, and they will not grab the client. The moment there might not be any more help needed from the facilitator, they would move away. Indeed, the moments where the facilitator might engage in this way is according to the intuition of the facilitator, but this is just intuition, nothing magic, even if the facilitator characterizes their intuition with spirituality. Therapists all work using a trained intuition. This is not 'pseudoscience' any more than any other therapeutic modality or conventional emotional processing is irrational to the point of 'pseudoscience'. (Why do we grieve? Why do we grieve in the way that we do? Why do we cry when we're sad? Why do we feel better after? Are material biochemical explanations at all sufficient or useful?) I would go so far to say every therapist works within this space. A therapist that does not utilize human intuition is no better than a workbook or an LLM.

The fact that you are conflating this kind of physicality and the bodywork with the sexual abuse in the MAPS trials and *presenting them as one and the same*, or that *one would inevitably lead to another because psychedelics and other substances make clients suggestible* and so *all therapy along these lines should be discarded* is either incredibly misinformed or so grossly unethical that it appears you've been guided by some kind of agenda, whether it is the thrill or financial/academic boon of sensationalism and attention or something much more sinister. In all cases, despite the verisimillitude of citation, your scholarship is so incredibly weak (I should remind everyone that, despite your appeals to credentialism, you are *not* a credentialed scholar of therapeutic psychology, any kind of biology, philosophy, or anthropology: your credentials are in literature) and frustrating that I worry that the work towards greater freedom of psychedelic use could very well be thwarted completely, or at least for another few decades. Hopefully for you, your academic work will land you a nice cushy tenured professorship by then...

I have been following yours and Psymposia's work for awhile with such colossal and somehow growing disappointment. As a leftist, I'm astounded that you engage in the kind of "critique" that simply leaves a massive hole to fester and that you don't discuss at all the chilling effect that your critique and engagement with the MAPS FDA process leaves, especially as keeping MDMA to be seen as not fit for therapy simply keeps it illegal to incarcerate more people. (You all seem to be obsessed with finding/inventing new cases for social justice above anything else. Need I remind you who is primarily the victim of incarceration with respect to drugs?) It really leaves one wondering whether you or your organization wants to promote psychedelics at all, especially because I have not seen a *single* positive thing that that has ever been put out about psychedelic use, and if you do want to promote psychedelics, I have absolutely no clue what all of the vision of psychedelics in society is supposed to be and what that process would look like. Remain illegal and underground? Decriminalized? Therapeutic? Is this process incremental or immediate? How will you convince society to change? Even one little crumb would suffice.

Best wishes.

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